Apparently, many players on the discord among other channels have expressed feedback to MTGO to make the elimination queue prize structure more top heavy, which was implemented and talked about in the blog before the release of the current iteration of the Vintage Cube. As someone who monitors and attempts entry into this queue throughout the day, I have noticed a steady but noticeable decline in the queue firing due to the lack of re-entry (makes sense as 3rd-4th place no longer get their entry fee back) or general lack of appeal due to the high risk prize structure. I am sure MTGO has the exact statistics regarding the popularity/health of this queue, but the current trend I have observed so far suggests we need to correct the prize structure for the long-term health of this queue. Maybe I am jumping the gun because I haven't been able to fire this queue for several days but I want to put this suggestion out there.
Declined Reverse prize structure for the Vintage Cube Elimination Queue
- Thread starter Emrakult
- Start date
Thank you for your suggestion, we will keep a close eye on this to make sure we can adjust as needed.
I want to strongly 2nd this opinion. After having done probably 30+ leagues prior to this change and now having done 5-6 of these single elimination drafts it is just night and day in terms of customer/player experience imo.
Obviously the top 5% of drafters who are cashing in on the new structure will hate all my points below and thats fine - but Im bothered enough by this that Im giving this whole write up and I feel like I probably more closely represent the majority of players.
1. League play is much less stressful. I dont want stressful experiences while playing magic. If its a more competitive environment, some big tourney or something, then thats different. Im coming on here to do a draft, build a deck Im going to enjoy playing, and play a few games. I've gone 1-2 in plenty of league drafts and occasionally 0-3 and it doesnt bother me at all. I still have fun and got to play 3 matches against 3 different decks and given that I occasionally go 2-1 or even 3-0 I never think of a bad draft as a waste or a loss.
Paying 10$ to draft and then just getting hosed and losing 2 very fast games is not something most players want to deal with. Im paying money to play the game - I want to play more than 6 turns. I also dont want Magic to feel like Im gambling real money. 40$ for winning a draft at magic can be real money - again I dont like feeling stressed out that if I dont topdeck a land or whatever next turn then Im getting screwed out of a chance at 40$. I want to just say 'oh well, gg' and move onto the next match.
Having real stakes like this encourages the kind of toxicity that I found rampant at competetive magic events. For example Im typing this up after my opponent disconnected with lethal damage incoming. This is the 3rd time I've had this happen in the 5-6 events. It did not happen in league play. Small sample size maybe but where is the incentive for the losing player to just say 'gg' and concede when they can instead cause whatever minor inconveince they can to the OP who just robbed them of 40$ they feel they no doubt deserved.
2. Like most adults I have a constrained schedule. I now need to commit 2+ hours of uninterupted time in order to do an elimination draft. This means Im just not going to do it as often. I loved the convenience of being able to just do a draft in 30 minutes and then walk away and come back to it whenever I can.
3. The majority of players are going to get frustated with how quickly their accounts get drained and as a result are just going to stop playing. Im a decent vintage cube player, its about all I play these days. In 5-6 events I've finished 2nd twice and got pretty lucky one of those times. Players who are not as good or not as familiar with the format are not going to do even this well. How much money will the average player lose without winning anything at all before they just call it quits on the format? 50$? 100$?
The announcement for this made it clear they were hedging bets and if support for Vintage Cube queues wasnt there, then the format would go back to just once in awhile. This is infuriating to me. You are simultaneously alienating a majority of players and then telling them that if they dont like how you have set things up then you'll just take their toy away.
LSV alone gets 15-30k views on his daily cube draft videos. There are clearly enough interested people to support full time cube.
I get it, you did the huge cube tourney last fall and drafts were firing all day for months and months and the player numbers were probably through the roof and now management is looking at the data and asking why player numbers were through the roof but the profits werent through the roof. As always, short term mindset prevails and so the decision has been made to milk as many players for as much money as possible with this obviously popular format. Its going to kill things long term though and Im really hoping they reconsider.
Again Im a huge vintage cube fan but Im 5-6 drafts in and Im not enjoying myself nearly as much. Youre taking the fun out of a game. Games are supposed to be fun - thats why were all here.
Obviously the top 5% of drafters who are cashing in on the new structure will hate all my points below and thats fine - but Im bothered enough by this that Im giving this whole write up and I feel like I probably more closely represent the majority of players.
1. League play is much less stressful. I dont want stressful experiences while playing magic. If its a more competitive environment, some big tourney or something, then thats different. Im coming on here to do a draft, build a deck Im going to enjoy playing, and play a few games. I've gone 1-2 in plenty of league drafts and occasionally 0-3 and it doesnt bother me at all. I still have fun and got to play 3 matches against 3 different decks and given that I occasionally go 2-1 or even 3-0 I never think of a bad draft as a waste or a loss.
Paying 10$ to draft and then just getting hosed and losing 2 very fast games is not something most players want to deal with. Im paying money to play the game - I want to play more than 6 turns. I also dont want Magic to feel like Im gambling real money. 40$ for winning a draft at magic can be real money - again I dont like feeling stressed out that if I dont topdeck a land or whatever next turn then Im getting screwed out of a chance at 40$. I want to just say 'oh well, gg' and move onto the next match.
Having real stakes like this encourages the kind of toxicity that I found rampant at competetive magic events. For example Im typing this up after my opponent disconnected with lethal damage incoming. This is the 3rd time I've had this happen in the 5-6 events. It did not happen in league play. Small sample size maybe but where is the incentive for the losing player to just say 'gg' and concede when they can instead cause whatever minor inconveince they can to the OP who just robbed them of 40$ they feel they no doubt deserved.
2. Like most adults I have a constrained schedule. I now need to commit 2+ hours of uninterupted time in order to do an elimination draft. This means Im just not going to do it as often. I loved the convenience of being able to just do a draft in 30 minutes and then walk away and come back to it whenever I can.
3. The majority of players are going to get frustated with how quickly their accounts get drained and as a result are just going to stop playing. Im a decent vintage cube player, its about all I play these days. In 5-6 events I've finished 2nd twice and got pretty lucky one of those times. Players who are not as good or not as familiar with the format are not going to do even this well. How much money will the average player lose without winning anything at all before they just call it quits on the format? 50$? 100$?
The announcement for this made it clear they were hedging bets and if support for Vintage Cube queues wasnt there, then the format would go back to just once in awhile. This is infuriating to me. You are simultaneously alienating a majority of players and then telling them that if they dont like how you have set things up then you'll just take their toy away.
LSV alone gets 15-30k views on his daily cube draft videos. There are clearly enough interested people to support full time cube.
I get it, you did the huge cube tourney last fall and drafts were firing all day for months and months and the player numbers were probably through the roof and now management is looking at the data and asking why player numbers were through the roof but the profits werent through the roof. As always, short term mindset prevails and so the decision has been made to milk as many players for as much money as possible with this obviously popular format. Its going to kill things long term though and Im really hoping they reconsider.
Again Im a huge vintage cube fan but Im 5-6 drafts in and Im not enjoying myself nearly as much. Youre taking the fun out of a game. Games are supposed to be fun - thats why were all here.
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